Youβre reading an excerpt of Stop Asking Questions, by Andrew Warner, a veteran podcast host of 2000+ episodes. The book explains how to lead high-impact interviews and learn anything from anyone. Master the craft of interviewing with this complete digital package. Purchase now for lifetime access to the book and extensive audio and video resources.
After I sold my greeting card company, I moved to Santa Monica and took a few years off work to focus on personal development.
One of the best things I did was go to weekly Toastmasters* meetings to become a better speaker. I was still new there when one of the members invited us all to her house for drinks.
For the first hour, the conversation was stilted, limited to whether our cars could make it to the top of Bear Mountain without snow chains. Elena, one of the other guests, said: βI donβt know if it could make it up a mountain, but I know it could go across the country. After my sister committed suicide, I put all my things in the backseat and drove till I got to California. It didnβt give me any trouble on the way over. Iβve had it for seven years, and itβs always held up.β
Someone asked what type of car it was. By then I already knew how to spot a shoved fact, and how itβs a signal that someone is eager to talk about a topic. So after she answered that she had a Ford Bronco, I asked a more meaningful follow-up.
βDo you feel comfortable saying more about your sister?β I asked. (In the section on double-barreled questions, youβll understand why I phrased my question this way.)
She paused for a moment, then said, βShe was battling depression for years, but my family didnβt talk about it much. We thought it was something sheβd just get through as she got older.β
Someone else said, βMy aunt went through that too. Back then it was an embarrassing thing to talk about. We thought people would blame us for causing it, or that her depression was contagious and would somehow rub off on them.β
As Elena told us about her family, I asked a few more questions, and she kept opening up. She unburdened herself. The big secret she kept hidden didnβt need to be a secret. It felt good to be accepted and to see she wasnβt alone.
Then, as she wound down, she said something that hurt me. She leaned back into the sofa, crossed her legs, and said, βAndrewβs always pumping us for personal information.β I looked at her and saw resentment in her eyes.
I couldnβt understand it. I knew she felt relief from talking. At times she cut me off and cut others off, just so she could keep telling us about her family. Why the hostility?
As I drove home that night, I couldnβt stop thinking about Elena. I realized that as my conversation skills improved, some people felt relief and closeness by talking to me. But I also realized that some people said the same thing Elena did. They felt I was pumping them for information, even though I was tapping into what they were dying to talk about.
Mulling it over, I realized my mistake. I never shared anything revealing about myself. My conversation techniques worked so well that people opened up, often more than they ever had before. Yes, they felt relief and acceptance, but they also felt vulnerable. And, more painfully, they felt alone in their vulnerability.
So I started talking more about myself. At first, I tried keeping things balanced. I talked as much about myself as my conversation partners talked about themselves. Quickly, I discovered that most people donβt want to listen. They prefer to talk.
What Iβve learned is to include a revealing sentence or two about myself every once in a while, then go back to giving others a chance to talk. That reciprocation is the right balance.
Once I figured that out, I asked Elena if she wanted to take a walk to the Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf for a drink after a Toastmasters session. When we sat down, I said, βI was curious about your sister because my brother dealt with depression in high school. I always wondered what I would do if I had kids who went through it. Thatβs why I asked you about it the other night.β
She started telling me about how sheβs been in therapy and what her family wished theyβd done. We talked for two hours. Well, she did most of the talking. I was incredibly curious and loved listening. Every once in a while, I interjected with something personal about myself. When she finished her second cup of tea and was ready to go home, she said, βI like talking with you, Andrew. I feel like youβre the only one who really understands me.β
I reciprocate in interviews too. Robert LoCascio, founder of LivePerson, the $3B customer service software company, told me about the failure of his previous company. He lost almost everything he had, and he told me about how miserable he was, which finally led him to get a therapist. If you listen to that interview, youβll hear me share stories about my background, and how I was ashamed as a boy when my familyβs landline was shut off because we couldnβt pay the bill. My little confessions made me feel relieved, but they also created an atmosphere where Robert could open up about his problems.
When Pablo Fuentes, founder of Proven, the small business hiring company, told me about failing nine times, I told him that one of my most painful worries is that if my business fails, I wonβt be able to get a job.
I add a line or two about myself when I ask guests to talk openly about themselves. I donβt do it to take attention off them. I do it to make them feel safe enough to talk openly.
Other good podcasters do it too. Dax Shepard is an actor, director, and host of the hit podcast, Armchair Expertβthe most downloaded new show on Apple Podcast in 2018. Shepard says people listen to his show because of the vulnerability of his guests. βI am so often trying to enact vulnerability,β he said as a guest on The Tim Ferriss Show, βwhich requires me to go first. Itβs almost like an [Alcoholics Anonymous] meeting where itβs like, I share first, and then maybe youβre compelled to share back.β
As you get good at using these conversation techniques, youβll get a deeper understanding of other peopleβs lives. Make sure to share your life with them too.
βI notice that bloggers, Instagrammers, podcasters, and others use their reach to show how amazing they are. They only show their strengths. Meanwhile, I canβt stop bringing up my weaknesses in my interviews.β
βFor example?β he asked.
βWell, just look at the transcript youβre going through right now. Within ten minutes I told my interviewee about one of my flaws. She responded by telling me how amazing she is. So now anyone listening will think of me as weak and her as successful.β
No response. Jeremy kept his head in my transcript. Did he even care? He produced national television. Was helping a flawed interviewer like me so beneath him that my issues werenβt even worth acknowledging?
I waited.
Then Jeremy said, βScroll to page 15 of the transcript. Thatβs where she tells you how her parents were incredibly hard on her and she felt like a failure as a child. Then she tells you how that led her to work harder, to prove herself to her parents. To fight back against what people thought of her.β
I read the passage from the transcript. βAndrew, you shared,β he continued. βYou got vulnerable. You canβt expect her to reciprocate instantly. This isnβt a transaction where you trade your story for hers. Youβre setting the atmosphere, giving her space to share too. And she did. Iβve read dozens of your transcripts. I canβt think of a single time that didnβt happen β¦ eventually. But you need to be patient and trust.β He was right.
βAnd you know what?β Jeremy said. βSometimes the people youβre talking with wonβt open up on the first conversation. It might take them years. Others wonβt open up at all. You need to be fine with that.β
Today I am fine with that, but only because I saw how often itβs true. If you want people to be open with you, you need to be willing to share first, and to do it without an expectation for immediate reciprocation. Give it time. The depth of your conversations will be worth it.
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π€ With Robert LoCascio: βLivePerson: From A Founderβs Most Painful Moment In Business To $100 MM / Year.β
π¬ With ββPablo Fuentes: βA founder faces pivoting or failure (8 separate times).β
π€ With Kara Goldin: βHint founder on overcoming doubts and doubters.β
After I started writing this book, I offered one-on-one coaching sessions with new interviewers to ensure I was addressing their real needs. Over and over, I saw that one of their biggest challenges was curbing excessive promotion. In the βWhatβs a Win for You?β section, I addressed how to show a guest you understand their need for promotion. But when is the right time to finally help them promote?
In most cases, the answer is when youβre interested in what theyβre promoting and when you think your audience would be curious about it. So if youβre interviewing an author of a new book you enjoy, absolutely start by asking about it.